Noticeable characteristics

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  • #572
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      Noticeable characteristics (similarities of Prince and Vanity)

      Prince and Vanity mirrored each other in several occasions. I am sure there’s more that I have written and saved but I’m going to list some I can think of off my head and edit to add to the list later.

      At some point:

      1. Both were beautiful :)

      2. Both wore one earring on the right ear

      3. Both wore lace gloves

      4. Both have performed sexually with the microphone stand

      5. Both had a unique clothing style

      6. Both carried a stylish cane

      7. Both have a naked photo of them as their cover on an album

      8. Both changed their name

      9. Both owned red corvettes

      10. Both became Christians

      11. Both died at 57 :(

      #1582
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        Below is an entire post I’ve retrieved from on the Org (prince.org) site. The source of this content: prince.org user SunnyGirl8. Since threads over there eventually are not easy to be found, I thought I’d share some content I found there that I thought was of an interesting read. I’m taking no credit for the content. There are quite a few that I have bookmarked. :)

        Note: I’ve stripped the YouTube links in the quote because majority of them are no longer valid. I’ve also tried to space some of the content for better read. The content is in the quote and also can be found at this link: click here.

         

         

        Prince & Vanity Were Talking Through Mirrors & Did Prince Get His Girl?

        The ‘How depressed was he about Vanity?’ thread was started by and large because of the dedication made by Prince to Vanity/Denise Matthews in Melbourne when she died. Aside from the other things he stated at the time, he also dedicated the following songs to her – Little Red Corvette, Dirty Mind, The Ladder, The Beautiful Ones and Adore. This raised questions as to her role in his life as many of these songs are over 30 years old and Adore, in particular, is a ‘declaration of love’ song.
        Many things have been discussed on the thread. What has been uncovered is her significance to his creative work, she would appear to be his muse. That does not necessarily imply that there was a traditional relationship happening. That also does not detract from many other significant themes he may discuss in his work like religion or for that matter, any of his publicly expressed private beliefs to do with spirituality.
        For anyone who’s been trying to understand how Prince was communicating to/about Vanity/Denise through his art, it would appear whenever you see a mirror or hear him talk about a mirror he is talking about/to her.

        This aligns with the widely circulated story in the press that the mirror theme also ties to Vanity’s name: “At the suggestion of Prince, she changed her name to Vanity, she says, because she was a mirror in which he saw reflections of himself.” Ebony, November 1987 https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=u8wDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA168&redir_esc=y&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=false The “mirror” appears repeatedly through his work and the examples we’ve uncovered here are:

        • 1984 – When Doves Cry – He sings while directly looking into the mirror “How could you just leave me standing, alone in a world that’s so cold?” then “Why do we scream at other? This is what it sounds like when doves cry” https*://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFxI61jTYJY
        • 1991 – Cream, Diamonds & Pearls – In 2004 during an MTV special called Prince:The Art of Musicology taped at New York’s Webster Hall, he performs Cream and playfully stops at one point to comment “You know I wrote this while I was looking in the mirror right”. https*://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGUlGFTLoOs
        • 1991 – Diamonds & Pearls, Diamonds & Pearls – There is a female dancer in the mirror that looks like Vanity. https:*//www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VKJIdmL1VU
        • Late 1994/March 1995 – Empty Room, (No studio version of track released) – In the video, Prince will not look into the mirror. This was aired during the UK tour in March 1995, which coincides with Denise’s marriage. https:*//www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3DlEmXkIss
        • 1999 – Hot With U (Nasty Girl Remix) – There’s no mirror in this video but Vanity’s image is used throughout which is unsurprising as it’s using the Nasty Girl remix. There are references to Pretty Mess Video. https:*//www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aIq1zxXqU
        • 2007 – Somewhere Here On Earth, Planet Earth – Woman in Mirror who is dressed in clothing similar to Vanity’s Skin On Skin album cover appears throughout the video. This is probably the most striking alignment to Vanity/Denise. https:*//www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAluL631Ygk (Note: On Vanity’s Skin on Skin cover she’s looking into a hand held mirror also.)
        • 2009 – Dance 4 Me, MPLSound – Interview with French press, Hotel Costes Press Conference, Oct 12 2009, Paris: He’s asked whether he was thinking about someone special when he wrote the song Dance 4 Me on MPLSound album and he says “I was looking in the mirror when I wrote it.” (6:45) https:*//www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BizpQz9L1
        • Prince’s work is multi-dimensional and very complex. There are many other cross references musically, visually and lyrically to be explored.
        As mentioned previously, the more I look at the whole thread and differing opinions on there it leads to one clear conclusion, if you really you want to get to the bottom of what he felt and thought, look at what he’s writing and singing about. He’s telling you what he thinks. And he’s telling you in a really clever way with all these layered nuances of symbolism and language. He totally exploits every art form he touches to give you a full multi-dimensional story. And he was a master at conveying his emotions and feelings through music. Why do you think that all of you feel so much for him? It’s not just about how he looked.
        Thanks to all of you on the thread for helping to uncover this! No offence intended. Source: This is a copy of the original thread posted on prince.org Thread: How depressed was he about Vanity? Reply #2001, SunnyGirl8
        PART 2: DID PRINCE GET HIS GIRL? (AN ANALYSIS OF THE TIMEFRAME SURROUNDING THE RELEASE OF THE SONG ADORE AND VANITY, PRINCE & NIKKI SIXX’S RELATIONSHIPS IN 1986/87)
        I’ve just joined this forum as I’ve been fascinated by this thread. Thanks, you’ve provided a comfort as his death has had an effect on me that I didn’t expect. I followed his music and have been to his gigs but I never really paid that much attention to his personal life and you can now see what a huge driver it was to his songwriting. This post relates to 1986/87 re Vanity, Prince and Nikki Sixx and the song, Adore. No offence is intended.
        Prince dedicated Adore to Vanity at the Melbourne concert. That’s very telling. It’s a declaration of love song, it has personal references and it’s obviously about her. It would appear that he was pursuing her at the time Adore was written/released in 86/87, which isn’t surprising, particularly given the nature of the song. And it worked. Nikki and Vanity broke up and the marriage didn’t go ahead. How real/serious that engagement was who knows? The engagement may have just been a way to mislead the press, muddy the waters and defuse any speculation re who Adore’s about, and if that was the case, Nikki was just a pawn in the drama going down between Vanity and Prince.
        At the same time, the Paisley Park build is completed and by October, Prince is recording love songs (When 2 R In Love) and then he decides he doesn’t want to release a ‘dark’ album (The Black Album) he wants to write LoveSexy instead.
        All of this raises the question of whether Prince and Vanity got back together then and it would appear they did. For how long is unknown. Between July 1987 until her marriage on Mar 26, 1995, everyone they’re linked to could potentially be a cover for them so they can keep their independence, privacy and have an arrangement/relationship that suits them. Most of these people are work colleagues after all. Maybe her drug use at that time has nothing to do with Prince or him being unfaithful either, but instead, she has a habit and it’s a heavy part of the scene she’s in. Really anything could have been going on with Prince and Vanity over the years…and it may not be what many have been led to believe.
        I also think he started to be more open before he died because they covered their tracks too well and that’s not how he wants his relationship with Denise to be remembered. He loved her. He wants her to be more closely associated with him. I guess his book ‘The Beautiful Ones’ (if it comes out) will shed more light.

        Adore:

        • Adore was recorded in LA on Nov 19, 1986. It’s about Vanity and his love for her.
        • Prince was pursuing Vanity behind the scenes in Jan 1987 and asking her to come back to him (per Nikki’s book)
        • 21 Jan Nikki discovers Prince has sent Vanity 24 dozen roses. He confronts Vanity about who they’re from and she won’t say. He reads the card, “Drop him. Take me back.” Nikki is furious.
        • 31 March Adore was released on the Sign O’ The Times album. Adore got major radio play (it’s #2 on a ranking of Prince’s best songs by AOL Radio) but it wasn’t released as a single/promo which in of itself is unusual, as why wouldn’t you be making this a single if there’s a huge demand for it? It was clearly a personal song and there was no desire to turn it into a ‘commercial’ hit. Also, being such a popular song and album and with his profile, there’d have to be speculation in the press about who the song was about too – I’d imagine that would fall heavily on Vanity as she was more accessible to the media and she seemed to be the go-to-girl for all matters regarding Prince as he often wouldn’t talk.
        • 16 April Vanity proposes to Nikki. Their engagement is kept a secret.
        • Prince does the Sign O’ The Times Tour in Europe May 8-June 29, 1987. Adore’s performed once on 29/5/87.
        • In June, Vanity’s engagement to Nikki is leaked to the press.
        • 14 July Vanity goes to MPLS for Nikki’s gig but stays at the hotel rather than seeing his show. Prince is in MPLS. W Bros and Prince’s management want Prince to extend to a world tour and he refuses. He says he wants to go into the studio and record his new album.
        • 16 July Nikki leaves (he’s on tour) and Vanity stays in MPLS. Nikki assumes she’ll hook up with (Dozen Roses Boy) Prince.
        • 18-24 July Prince films scenes at PP for Sign O’ The Times
        • 9 Aug Nikki says he hasn’t spoken to Vanity in a couple of weeks
        • 14-23 Aug Vanity visits Nikki in NY. She doesn’t spend much time with him.
        • 26 Aug Nikki breaks up with her over the phone, she says ok. When the press finds out is unknown but presumably when they fight in September it’s still not public knowledge.
        • 5 Sept Prince plays a HitnRun concert in MPLS.
        • 9 Sept Nikki gets home from tour and Vanity had trashed his place.
        • 11 Sept Prince films a short segment for MTV awards in LA then plays an aftershow at a country club. Nikki arrives home and Vanity jumps out at him, out of nowhere. They fight and Vanity says, “Hit me if you hate me!” and he knocks her out cold. He throws her out to the guy in the waiting limo.
        • 15 Sept Vanity comes over to see Nikki and says she is sorry. They agree to be friends.
        Adore was played in 80 sets in 87/88/89 (29/5/87, 18/11/87 and 1988/89 LoveSexy tour). It’s reintroduced into his setlist across 96/97/98 and is played in it’s heaviest rotation (101 sets) from Nov 21 1996 thru 1997 to Dec 15 1998. It pops up on and off from then and is included in 2002 One Nite Alone, 2004 Musicology, 2011 Welcome2America and the final 2016 tour

        The Black Album:

        • It was recorded as a compilation of individual ‘dark’ tracks (as opposed to a thematic album) between Sept 1986-Mar 1987.
        • In Oct 1997, Prince revisits The Black Album and records the final song for the album at PP ‘When 2 R In Love’. It’s very different to the other tracks – it’s a love song. The album is then prepared for release.
        • On Dec 1st, The Black Album is shelved. When 2 R in Love goes into the LoveSexy Album. The rest of the LoveSexy Album was recorded mid Dec 1987-late Jan 1988.
        Timeline: Nikki Sixx autobiography Heroin Diaries, The Vault by Pers Nilsen, PrinceVault, Setlist.fm Update: (links to How depressed was he about Vanity? Reply #1848 29/5/16) On 29 May 2016, I stumbled across the following article which confirms the assumptions on this post regarding Prince’s management team and their frustration with Prince regarding the singles that were chosen for release off the Sign O’ The Times album, his reluctance to extend the tour and why he postponed the Black Album.
        (Source: This is a copy of the original thread posted on prince.org Thread: How depressed was he about Vanity? Reply#1107 Pg37, SunnyGirl8 ).
        #2181
        Admin
        Keymaster

          Black and White

           

          Prince’s Under the Cherry Moon and Vanity’s Skin on Skin – Under The Influence video are both in black and white! I think she would have made a lovely character on UTCM with that elegant gown she wore in her Under the Influence video. :)

           

          Might just be me, but the word “Under” in both his movie and her video seems weird!!

           

          And the release dates were close!

          Vanity’s Skin on Skin album: Release date: May 24, 1986

          Prince’s UTCM: Release date: July 4, 1986 (initial release: July 2, 1986)

          #2185
          Archived
          Participant

            Wow, good catch on this. I hadn’t realized the cute connection between UTCM and UTI,

            A side note: I tried to reply to your question asking if I received notice, and I wasn’t able to reply because there wasn’t a reply click,  But the answer is yes I do receive notice.

            #3950
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              Great Minds Think Alike

              Denise Facebook Post – December 15, 2013
              I GRAPHICALLY DESIGNED THIS PICTURE MOONS AGO,
              HIM IN A JELLYFISH TANK PLAYING A GUITAR….THEN I SAW A FAMOUS ARTIST DO PICS OF HIM WITH JELLYFISH- AFTER I DID, I WAS HONORED…

              Denise started her BIOV book in 94 and I believe was going to publish it by 1999
              (this site, at least, states that: https://www.nytimes.com/…/denise-matthews-pop-singer-vanity…)
              She re-wrote BIOV and published in 2007.
              MPLSound released – March 2009 the jellyfish art was on MPLSound cover.

              The only jellyfish art that I am aware that Prince’s artist designed is the image included in this post. Either way their minds were thinking the same with that artwork. Lol. Click the image to view the larger size.

               

              #3951
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                Yes, the leopard/cheetah pattern. We know Prince had a thing for that pattern. He started early!

                 

                Above is Denise Bengal cat named Angel. The other image is a coat Denise owned. I believe she sold it.

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                #3954
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                  Well, Denise didn’t own one, so maybe this doesn’t count. Lol

                  Read her FBook message in the image. Prince owned a car that looks like the red car. These cars look similar, but I’ve no idea if their are the same car type. Close, if not!

                   

                   

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                  #3975
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                  Participant

                    The jacket is gorgeous! I have her istagram page but I didn’t see that picture of her jacket. How did you know she sold it? Do you know if she sold anthing that Prince gave her?

                    #3977
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                      She was selling it from her Facebook. I know she tried to sell that purse he bought her but I don’t know if it was sold–as she mentioned that it was expensive. Some replies were questioning her as to why she wants to sell something Prince bought her (she did mention that Prince bought it for her) but she replied back saying she needed her bills paid. I probably didn’t word that right but it was pretty much to pay medical bills. I believe it’s the purse she’s holding on the magazine cover that looks like a ball.

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                      #3979
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                        Oh wow, that was rough to hear… She loved that purse. That was the purple egg purse that prince bought her on the 1999 tour that she loved so much. I wonder what other items she had that Prince gave her. Jill Jones said Vanity had a lot of Prince’s clothes and she never sold them no matter how sick she was. It’s so sad that she needed money that bad. I wished Prince would have been able to help her. Do you think he didn’t help her because she didn’t allow him to?

                        #3982
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                          I honestly don’t know.

                          I can say that I have mixed feelings about the relationship they had now. I didn’t feel that way until the discussion about when she actually met him. For me, this means a lot–as I had early on tried to piece some things together.

                          And if they really did meet in Jan 82 and was off and on, not only didn’t they have enough time with each other (I would think) to call it “deeply in love”, according to princevault site, the Hookers/V6 band was assembled by Prince from the summer of 1981 to January 1982. How’d they do that? Nasty Girl was recorded March 82. Denise is creative, but do you think she would have already had lyrics in that short time span for Nasty Girl when she had never been in the music field? Talking fast!

                          How the heck she had time to not like him at first, thought he was gay when she met him in his drunken stupor, and then she suddenly falls in love, he sees her in her underwear and wanted her to front the group, then he tells her if she loves him she will move out there with him… Love? In a matter of days?

                          If V6 was indeed assembled by January 82 (as princevault states), this means just days after meeting him she moved from NY (or wherever she was living) to an entirely different state to be with a man she just met with no plans set as to where she’s going to be living, etc… This sounds crazy.

                          So little time to be off and on, arguing and fighting, getting back together, being jealous of each other, have sex, and make music all day.

                          The song “How Come U Don’t Call Me” initial tracking was in April 1982. I actually thought the song was about Denise. It can’t be about her when she had just moved out there with him. Where would she even be living and how would she be making it? If the song is about her, then that means that just 4 months after moving out there they weren’t talking. I don’t think they lived together being he was still with Susan at the time. It’s truly sad to think that this is how everything went—so fast.

                          I’m happy Denise changed her life but she must have been really troubled to deal with the mess Prince threw at her.

                          I apologize. I typed all that before even answering your question. I just had this on my mind off and on and had to get that out because I hadn’t discussed it as I’d like to.

                          As for your question… I think she probably felt if she accepted any money from him it would be like accepting money from Hollywood, so to speak. I’m sure she understood how he earned his royalties. She stopped receiving money from her Vanity days, so I am not surprised if she felt the same regarding Prince giving her money. She probably told him she didn’t want his money.

                          I can see them arguing even in those later years, even after she became Christian, and going without talking to each other for a while.

                          I also think Prince must’ve felt like there was no closure between them after she died, and that they probably were in some sort of not-talking mode and didn’t get the chance to say sorry. I bet he felt a LOT of guilt.

                          Imagine him with all that money and the one woman he supposedly loved so deeply needed help with those medical bills and then he later hear she died when he could have put whatever differences to the side and anonymously helped her. If he really wanted to help, I’m sure he could have done so without her even knowing.

                          One thing I want to add is about this “used to love one another”… Either he loved her or he didn’t. Love doesn’t go away. He probably was no longer “in love” with her, but I don’t see love as something that goes away. Love means look out for a loved one if you can do so. The only way I see an excuse on him not helping is IF he wasn’t aware of how bad she was doing. She probably didn’t go any further than trying to sell her things from social media. Smh

                          #3983
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                            Oh and also, I think I said it wrong as to why she was selling the purse. I think when she was selling it at that particular time it was to get the money to publish her book. She also said something about wanting to build a church. Being she did everything on her own, I take it the cost to get everything done regarding the book wasn’t cheap. That purse alone should have helped a lot, but the way the comments were posted, I think people didn’t want to buy something that I’m sure they knew was valuable and special to her. Truly sad.

                            #4042
                            Archived
                            Participant

                              I honestly don’t know.

                              I can say that I have mixed feelings about the relationship they had now. I didn’t feel that way until the discussion about when she actually met him. For me, this means a lot–as I had early on tried to piece some things together.

                              And if they really did meet in Jan 82 and was off and on, not only didn’t they have enough time with each other (I would think) to call it “deeply in love”, according to princevault site, the Hookers/V6 band was assembled by Prince from the summer of 1981 to January 1982. How’d they do that? Nasty Girl was recorded March 82. Denise is creative, but do you think she would have already had lyrics in that short time span for Nasty Girl when she had never been in the music field? Talking fast!

                              How the heck she had time to not like him at first, thought he was gay when she met him in his drunken stupor, and then she suddenly falls in love, he sees her in her underwear and wanted her to front the group, then he tells her if she loves him she will move out there with him… Love? In a matter of days?

                              If V6 was indeed assembled by January 82 (as princevault states), this means just days after meeting him she moved from NY (or wherever she was living) to an entirely different state to be with a man she just met with no plans set as to where she’s going to be living, etc… This sounds crazy.

                              So little time to be off and on, arguing and fighting, getting back together, being jealous of each other, have sex, and make music all day.

                              The song “How Come U Don’t Call Me” initial tracking was in April 1982. I actually thought the song was about Denise. It can’t be about her when she had just moved out there with him. Where would she even be living and how would she be making it? If the song is about her, then that means that just 4 months after moving out there they weren’t talking. I don’t think they lived together being he was still with Susan at the time. It’s truly sad to think that this is how everything went—so fast.

                              I’m happy Denise changed her life but she must have been really troubled to deal with the mess Prince threw at her.

                              I apologize. I typed all that before even answering your question. I just had this on my mind off and on and had to get that out because I hadn’t discussed it as I’d like to.

                              As for your question… I think she probably felt if she accepted any money from him it would be like accepting money from Hollywood, so to speak. I’m sure she understood how he earned his royalties. She stopped receiving money from her Vanity days, so I am not surprised if she felt the same regarding Prince giving her money. She probably told him she didn’t want his money.

                              I can see them arguing even in those later years, even after she became Christian, and going without talking to each other for a while.

                              I also think Prince must’ve felt like there was no closure between them after she died, and that they probably were in some sort of not-talking mode and didn’t get the chance to say sorry. I bet he felt a LOT of guilt.

                              Imagine him with all that money and the one woman he supposedly loved so deeply needed help with those medical bills and then he later hear she died when he could have put whatever differences to the side and anonymously helped her. If he really wanted to help, I’m sure he could have done so without her even knowing.

                              One thing I want to add is about this “used to love one another”… Either he loved her or he didn’t. Love doesn’t go away. He probably was no longer “in love” with her, but I don’t see love as something that goes away. Love means look out for a loved one if you can do so. The only way I see an excuse on him not helping is IF he wasn’t aware of how bad she was doing. She probably didn’t go any further than trying to sell her things from social media. Smh

                              You make great points, I have trouble just going up against what Denise said in that magazine article and what her obituary says about meeting him in 1980, so I’m never 100 percent certain about 1982. I always believed it was 1980 until I saw the news paper article of the date she said she was in Japan (Semptember-Dec 1981) she said she was there for 9 months, and that was the only time she modeled in Japan no? She said she saw Prince on an album cover and thought she would meet him some day so that meant she haden’t met him yet in 1981. It’s confusing, I know. I personally think that even if it was in 1982 that they met, they could have still loved each other deeply. I agree it was fast but Personalities like Prince and Vanity moves really fast. It’s just the lifestyle they lived. (Secret… ) I met and moved in with my husband 2 weeks after we met. Been married for 16 years….

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